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We need capital punishment back.
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Original post by the mezzil
No, what we need is torture.
Torture is not a justifiable method of punishment. We are at least civilised human beings who are capable of better decisions than torture. We aren't animals like the Taliban who are professionals in torture.
Will capital punishment really deter people who go on sprees of mindless criminality? I think not. We don't have to go backwards on this issue. I totally understand the viewpoint that "murderers should expect the same back - they don't deserve to live", but there is much more to it. It's a valid opinion to think we shouldn't have to provide for him/her (with accommodation costs in jail, healthcare etc). But in today's society we need to see the bigger picture. Understanding the real motive of the crime, what the criminal was thinking and what sparked it.
In the end, what about people who were actually innocent, with all evidence pointing to guilty. I've read countless cases of people who were later found to be innocent. It's an extremely complicated issue, and I would rather have it left the way it is.
In the end, what about people who were actually innocent, with all evidence pointing to guilty. I've read countless cases of people who were later found to be innocent. It's an extremely complicated issue, and I would rather have it left the way it is.
Original post by Carter78
In Texas you'd find a lot of people supporting creationism being taught in schools, that doesn't make it right though does it?
This is why laws should not just be made on the very narrow understanding of "majority rules".
The tyranny of the majority, have you heard of the concept?
This is why laws should not just be made on the very narrow understanding of "majority rules".
The tyranny of the majority, have you heard of the concept?
You might wanna check out why capital punishment over there has worked so successively.
Original post by The Marshall
You might wanna check out why capital punishment over there has worked so successively.
Over there? I thought you were a "Southern gentleman"?
Also it hasn't been very successful. The homicide rate in Texas is about average for the USA, but if we look at the way the population is distributed it is a very rural state with not many big cities; this should mean the homicide rate is significantly lower than the average (but it isn't) as there isn't the same amount of gang violence due to the lack of big cities. The homicide rate in Texas is actually higher than the homicide rate in New York, which should have a much higher rate due to the entire population being confined in a big city. I say this but you will probably ignore it and the stats and just spout out some more stuff that you just made up.
Edit: Just incase you didn't know; New York doesn't have capital punishment.
If you try to justify capital punishment on economical grounds, and not moral grounds, you could just as easily make a case for killing the unemployed, or the homeless - anyone who is not 'economically viable'.
Always rehabilitation over state murder, regardless of economics. Some things are more important than the economy.
Always rehabilitation over state murder, regardless of economics. Some things are more important than the economy.
Original post by josh_cook
If you try to justify capital punishment on economical grounds, and not moral grounds, you could just as easily make a case for killing the unemployed, or the homeless - anyone who is not 'economically viable'.
Always rehabilitation over state murder, regardless of economics. Some things are more important than the economy.
Always rehabilitation over state murder, regardless of economics. Some things are more important than the economy.
I totally agree.
I would just like to add that, as evidence presented before has shown, it actually costs more to impliment capital punishment than to imprison someone for life anyway... But yes, I do agree. It should be looked at on moral grounds; to make society better and to lessen the occassions when murders happen we need to rehabilitate and go to the cause, not just kill.
Original post by Silkysam
Over there? I thought you were a "Southern gentleman"?
Also it hasn't been very successful. The homicide rate in Texas is about average for the USA, but if we look at the way the population is distributed it is a very rural state with not many big cities; this should mean the homicide rate is significantly lower than the average (but it isn't) as there isn't the same amount of gang violence due to the lack of big cities. The homicide rate in Texas is actually higher than the homicide rate in New York, which should have a much higher rate due to the entire population being confined in a big city. I say this but you will probably ignore it and the stats and just spout out some more stuff that you just made up.
Edit: Just incase you didn't know; New York doesn't have capital punishment.
Also it hasn't been very successful. The homicide rate in Texas is about average for the USA, but if we look at the way the population is distributed it is a very rural state with not many big cities; this should mean the homicide rate is significantly lower than the average (but it isn't) as there isn't the same amount of gang violence due to the lack of big cities. The homicide rate in Texas is actually higher than the homicide rate in New York, which should have a much higher rate due to the entire population being confined in a big city. I say this but you will probably ignore it and the stats and just spout out some more stuff that you just made up.
Edit: Just incase you didn't know; New York doesn't have capital punishment.
The evidence for rates of capital punishment in Texas has been posted. You can deny all you want but it is there and I won't bother to tell you. Because you will deny it, in fact, I think you read it, but ignored it. Isn't that correct? If you aren't gonna listen to people's view in favor of capital punishment, then what is the use of this debate? I perhaps have been only fighting for it and the rest have denied it. Look at it, not one, not one single supporter of capital punishment came to help me in the forum.(Probably because I'm rude, but that's due to increased bullying, or perhaps I'm hated, people despise me), in this debate or whatever, it is mostly the deniers wanting to have their say and more than that, if the deniers won't listen to whatever we show them, and if they don't listen to us when we show them what we got, then what is the use? The moderater(who is the worst) is in complete favor of not bringing capital punishment back. When I didn't present any evidence to NYU2012, She let them bully me. And it was group bullying. Why? Because she supported them and more than that, not bringing capital punishment back. Now isn't that wrong? A Moderator should be able to keep the peace. Fine, she supports not bringing it back, I don't mind it. But when the group bullying was going on, she did nothing. Absolutely nothing. I'd like to apologize on my behalf for offending anyone, which I do so. What I'm trying to say is if the deniers, the sympathizers won't listen to those who support capital punishment, how will this debate work? I've consistently being a pest while supporting capital punishment, yes, you will agree with me I am a pest, an annoying hindrance, and I have no shame in admitting that. You may hate me, fine. But what do I care? Nothing.
There is no need of debating now as the topic clearly and eventually goes to those in favor. A debate, they say is not about winning or losing. When I started debating , I found that was the case. Those on the opposite side made sure that their views were presented and all the other's opposition's views were blocked out. Do you read that sentence? Debating has now become winning or losing. And more clearly, the OP hasn't contributed much. None of those in favor have come and supported. Because, if there is such widespread opposition, clearly those in favor have lost, haven't we? We lost, but we won't give up. A Moderator should be able to keep the peace, respect the person's view and must be 50-50 on topic forums. Hey, if she supports CP, fine. But as a moderator, it is her job to respect what the other person's view is. She cannot simply support it fully with open passion. I do sincerely from the bottom of my heart, do apologize if I've offended anyone, seriously, I mean it. I give you word as a Southern gentlemen on that. This topic is off no way any good for people of in favor of CP bringing it back. Perhaps I may not have debating skills, Perhaps I may not have answered as everyone intends me to do, but I am no fool. And I will not become a tool of the world. I will control the world, not them. I will be who I want to be and I will do what I want to do, no one has any right to tell me that this is how you debate, blah blah. I will not becoming something the world intends me to become. I will be what I want to become. In this topic, I agree, I am a very weak debater, yet, I try. Probably the reason I fail is because I tend to bring in my emotions too much, and that is very evident. But anyway, as I was saying, she may not be an admin or not, but it is her job to keep the peace within a topic. The way she has done it is beyond all disregard. And this is something I will complain to the official moderators of this forum. She is not doing her job properly. GSCE Bitesize has an excellent way to do the moderating job. I feel in my best interests, that if she wanted to support against CP, she should have started a seperarte thread for this. Clearly here, she has fully shown her passion. Clearly here she says I ignored her sources. I looked at them, and I can't deny them. Thanks to increasing pressure by people against it, there has been a reduction. I respect that source and view she showed me. But then , she didn't have a look at what I said. Perhaps I am unable to debate( That is due to my Autistic spectrum disorder) and bring too much emotion, but she should also understand what I am saying as well. I am no ''adored'' nor '' respected'' member.
I'm sure many of you here hate me , and that is my fault. I'm sure many of you see me as a weak target to bully because I don't show any evidence when I have, and I have beaten back your attempted bullying resorts. In this topic, anyone who is in favor, say they left a small comment supporting CP, he is immideatly attacked by the wolves by bullying and then told to leave the thread for not presenting any evidence. This is unfair and justice isn't done. Everyone has a right to debate. Everyone can do what they want. This is the truth. Those who support cp and yet put their arguments and when they present the evidence, they are ignored. More unfairness. I know many of you won't agree with everything I've said, but hey, fine by me. But those who have bullied me, Silky Sam, Carter 78 and Mister dead know what they've done. I am reporting this, but I don't think even the mods on this site wouldn't agree with me, hey, at least they know a moderator isn't doing her job properly. With great power comes great responsibility.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by The Marshall
The evidence for rates of capital punishment in Texas has been posted. You can deny all you want but it is there and I won't bother to tell you. Because you will deny it, in fact, I think you read it, but ignored it. Isn't that correct?
But then some of us posted evidence about the rest of the USA, and almost every other country in the world that then contradicts your claims. Texas is the exception to the rule, not the rule.
Original post by Emaemmaemily
But then some of us posted evidence about the rest of the USA, and almost every other country in the world that then contradicts your claims. Texas is the exception to the rule, not the rule.
You told me you would not talk to me. So then, please don't talk to me.
But in regards to answer: I presented Alabama, and the rest of the world. Don't play coy with me. It doesn't contradict the claims I make, you can clearly view the source from the Guardian. Texas isn't an exception.
And please do not bother to answer me.
(edited 11 years ago)
capital punishment doesn't solve anything
Original post by pink pineapple
capital punishment doesn't solve anything
So in the US, handling a gun is wrong? If you say capital punishment doesn't solve anything, is it wrong for a citizen of the United States to be handling a gun?
(edited 11 years ago)
I reckon prisons should be made a lot nastier so that they become a real deterrent.
Also, thirty years is a VERY long time. That's a huge chunk of someone's life, I think it's a perfectly apt punishment.
Also, thirty years is a VERY long time. That's a huge chunk of someone's life, I think it's a perfectly apt punishment.
Original post by The Marshall
So in the US, handling a gun is wrong? If you say capital punishment doesn't solve anything, is it wrong for a citizen of the United States to be handling a gun?
Depends on the context of a citizen handling a gun, if it's handling a gun with the intention to kill, then yes
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by pink pineapple
Depends on the context of a citizen handling a gun, if it's handling a gun with the intention to kill, then yes
But what if that citizen was using it to defend himself, then?
We've already proven earlier that capital punishment 1. Doesn't act as a deterrant and 2. actually costs more.
As for justice, I think we need to focus far more on the factors in society that CAUSE individuals to murder (so we can lessen the numbers), and how it is possible to rehabillitate people (rather than punish), because that is a long term solution that helps the wider community.
Plus, giving the state the ability to kill its people is never going to be a good thing, because the system can be abused; as well as the obvious point that innocent people could be killed, which is NEVER okay.
As for justice, I think we need to focus far more on the factors in society that CAUSE individuals to murder (so we can lessen the numbers), and how it is possible to rehabillitate people (rather than punish), because that is a long term solution that helps the wider community.
Plus, giving the state the ability to kill its people is never going to be a good thing, because the system can be abused; as well as the obvious point that innocent people could be killed, which is NEVER okay.
Original post by Emaemmaemily
We've already proven earlier that capital punishment 1. Doesn't act as a deterrant and 2. actually costs more.
As for justice, I think we need to focus far more on the factors in society that CAUSE individuals to murder (so we can lessen the numbers), and how it is possible to rehabillitate people (rather than punish), because that is a long term solution that helps the wider community.
Plus, giving the state the ability to kill its people is never going to be a good thing, because the system can be abused; as well as the obvious point that innocent people could be killed, which is NEVER okay.
As for justice, I think we need to focus far more on the factors in society that CAUSE individuals to murder (so we can lessen the numbers), and how it is possible to rehabillitate people (rather than punish), because that is a long term solution that helps the wider community.
Plus, giving the state the ability to kill its people is never going to be a good thing, because the system can be abused; as well as the obvious point that innocent people could be killed, which is NEVER okay.
You really need to come and talk, don't you?
Original post by The Marshall
You really need to come and talk, don't you?
I think you need to go back to the first page and read the evidence from there on. I think people are assuming you've bothered to read other peoples arguments, when the likelihood is you haven't even glances at the first few pages and their brilliant sources and evidence against what you say.(Blogspot and websites for victims of violent crime aren't the best, objective sources to get information defending your argument on. You won't be taken seriously if you don't read other people sources and provide reliable sources yourself.)
This was posted from The Student Room's iPhone/iPad App
Original post by The Marshall
But what if that citizen was using it to defend himself, then?
Is the citizen intending to mourder in order to defend himself?
I agree, to some extent. Taxes paid for mass murderers such as Ian Brady and Peter Sutcliffe to be imprisoned - they've been living rent free at the tax payer's expense. Alright, prison isn't glamorous and hardly a luxury - but to some extent they're getting off incredibly lightly for the crimes they've committed. I think it costs something like thirty thousand a year to keep one prisoner? That's more than a lot of citizens earn.
For me, it's not about the money. Honestly, how would you feel if you were the family of one of the victims? I don't think you can fully understand unless you were one. Also, life imprisonment doesn't always mean the standard thirty years - it's not unheard of for murderers to be given parole and to have their sentence shortened for 'redeeming themselves' in prison. I know of somebody in my area who murdered someone and was only given two years in prison, within a year of release they were back in court for attempted murder. The victim of the attempted murder was my dad. It was so heartbreaking and infuriating knowing how lightly this 'person' had been let off - worst still, they're roaming the streets as we speak!
Capital punishment should be back - whether it be for a deterrent or protection of society. Mass murderers shouldn't be given the privilege of being in prison for taking so many lives, those who killed in inhumane ways also shouldn't be given the luxury, and those who fail to reform via prison. When these murderers finally finish their 'life' sentence, they'll be free to roam the street. Will they have reformed? Probably not. They'll have nothing to protect or live for, their chance of getting a career is virtually impossible and they will probably have limited family - what stops them murdering again?
For me, it's not about the money. Honestly, how would you feel if you were the family of one of the victims? I don't think you can fully understand unless you were one. Also, life imprisonment doesn't always mean the standard thirty years - it's not unheard of for murderers to be given parole and to have their sentence shortened for 'redeeming themselves' in prison. I know of somebody in my area who murdered someone and was only given two years in prison, within a year of release they were back in court for attempted murder. The victim of the attempted murder was my dad. It was so heartbreaking and infuriating knowing how lightly this 'person' had been let off - worst still, they're roaming the streets as we speak!
Capital punishment should be back - whether it be for a deterrent or protection of society. Mass murderers shouldn't be given the privilege of being in prison for taking so many lives, those who killed in inhumane ways also shouldn't be given the luxury, and those who fail to reform via prison. When these murderers finally finish their 'life' sentence, they'll be free to roam the street. Will they have reformed? Probably not. They'll have nothing to protect or live for, their chance of getting a career is virtually impossible and they will probably have limited family - what stops them murdering again?
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