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Syria is not amused

Syria is appalled by the actions of the US at further inflating the palestinian conflict by providing the Israelis with over $30bn of arms. Is not enough blood shed in the Middle East by the US, that they now have to give arms to the biggest aggressor in the Middle East? Syria hopes that the UN will join in condemning the US and calls for a counter measure to be put in place.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6920988.stm

Reply 1

Longshoredrift80

10

Micronesia would like to point out that this 30billion dollars is to be over the next decade, and only constitutes a 25% rise on the current value of US military aid to Israel. Israel faces serious threats to its security - from Hamas et al in Gaza, Hezbollah in Lebanon, from Syria and from Iran. The US providing a key ally in such a region with arms to defend itself is the right thing to do and Micronesia stands right behind them. Were it not for the constant hostility of countries such as Syria - a country which funnels arms to Hezbollah and has for years sheltered and supported palestinian terrorist groups, perhaps such aid would not be needed.
Micronesia also notes that the US is upping its military aid to Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia in order to counter the threats posed by Iran (and its lackey Syria). Iran and Syria are the last countries on Earth that have any right to question the defence arrangements of Israel and the US.

Reply 2

Ethereal

19

The RSA is disturbed by this for a number of reasons. Firstly, an increase in funding is an escalation of a conflict which already threatens to become outright war. Secondly, we must disagree with the rep for Micronesia; too often Israel represents itself as an innocent child trying hard to defend itself from bullies. This is not the case at all. Israel is in material breach of resolutions and stands accused of Human Rights abuses by independent watchdogs. It has crossed national bounderies many times, it subjects a people to a second class existence and reinforces this with force. It is an aggressor which, whilst we do not condone the actions of those who shell and suicide bomb Israel, calls down the violence upon itself.

Thirdly, this money would be far better spent offering constructive aid to the region. The best way to undermine a recruiting sargeant for those who are fighting Israel is to provide the things they need for them. Homes, food, jobs, security, justice and equality. Why not use the money for that?

Reply 3

Teehar

OP

10

The Syrian delegate is appalled at the lack of understanding by the micronesian representative, but is not surprised considering that even the US failed to recognise the divisions in the Middle East. Syria will never be Iran's lackey, whilst we maintain good relations, we will never act together with them to pose a militaristic threat. Were the Micronesian delegate to understand the Sunni/Shia divisions, he would know this.

Reply 4

brimstone

7

India is concerned at the possible escalation of further conflict in the Middle East. We urge all sides not to respond to this news with violence.

Reply 5

Dionysus

15

The Republic of Zimbabwe expresses its concern at the American decision to arm these religious zealots to the possible detriment of their neighbours.

Reply 6

Ten Green Bottles

2

Germany is sympathetic towards Syria's situation, and is concerned about the possible implications of the US' actions in the Middle East. Germany would urge the affected countries to attempt to reach a solution peacefully and would like to see military action 'removed from the table'.

Reply 7

Apollo

11

The US will comment if/when it gets confirmed as the rep :wink:

Reply 8

Craghyrax

17

The Secretary General is also hopeful of hearing the views of the Israeli representative.

Reply 9

Longshoredrift80

10

Ethereal

Secondly, we must disagree with the rep for Micronesia; too often Israel represents itself as an innocent child trying hard to defend itself from bullies.

A representation not unwarranted given the numerous wars Israel has been forced to fight for its very survival and the six decades of constant terrorist threat it has faced.

Ethereal

and stands accused of Human Rights abuses by independent watchdogs.

As do most countries on Earth. In Israel's case, there seems to bea very specific agenda pushed.

Ethereal

It is an aggressor which, whilst we do not condone the actions of those who shell and suicide bomb Israel, calls down the violence upon itself.

Micronesia wishes representatives would acquaint themselves with Middle Eastern history before making such bizarre, outlandish and uneducated comments. One need only view the DoI of Israel and the response from the Arab States to know that Israel is not the one desiring violence. Micronesia must point out once again the massive concessions Israel has made for peace with some of its neighbours. Israel's desire for peace has been made clear by these concessions - when it does use violence it is through necessity of self-defence.

Ethereal

The best way to undermine a recruiting sargeant for those who are fighting Israel is to provide the things they need for them. Homes, food, jobs, security, justice and equality. Why not use the money for that?

Perhaps because the inept and corrupt PA has wasted and stolen BILLIONS of dollars over the years and diverted millions more to terrorism? So no international donor can be confident of aid to the palestinians ever reaching the people and not being spent on weaponry to be used against Israel.

Reply 10

Longshoredrift80

10

6+6=12

Syria will never be Iran's lackey, whilst we maintain good relations, we will never act together with them to pose a militaristic threat. Were the Micronesian delegate to understand the Sunni/Shia divisions, he would know this.

Then perhaps the Syrian delegate would like to explain the military pact his government signed with Iran in June 2006 which the Iranian defence minister described as a “mutual front against Israeli threats”?
Is the Syrian delegate stating that his government does not take that pact seriously or is he attempting to brazely mislead the assembly with statements that run in direct contrast to the actions of his government?
Because to sign a military pact with another State seems somewhat incongruous. with a claim that you will never act together to pose a militaristic threat.

Reply 11

Craghyrax

17

JonathanH

One need only view the DoI of Israel and the response from the Arab States to know that Israel is not the one desiring violence.

The Secretary General is quite astonished at Micronesia adopting such a defined stance towards the Israeli/Palestinian conflict ^o)

Reply 12

Longshoredrift80

10

brimstone

India is concerned at the possible escalation of further conflict in the Middle East. We urge all sides not to respond to this news with violence.

This is not news. This is a 25% increase in US military aid to Israel. Given the current threat posed to Israel, not least by Iranian nuclear development, this is not surprising. The Syrian delegate is simply attempting to waste the Assembly's time by discussing an issue that is not its business.

Reply 13

Ethereal

19

JonathanH

A representation not unwarranted given the numerous wars Israel has been forced to fight for its very survival and the six decades of constant terrorist threat it has faced.

It is entriely unwarranted. Need we remind the rep that Israel is responsible for all sorts of attrocious acts?

As do most countries on Earth. In Israel's case, there seems to bea very specific agenda pushed.

I'm sorry? Did the rep for Micronesia just claim that because most countries are listed as human rights abusers (which I refute anyway) but the RSA has only named Israel here there is some agenda? Israel was named because they are the ones reveiving an increased funding for their military.

Micronesia wishes representatives would acquaint themselves with Middle Eastern history before making such bizarre, outlandish and uneducated comments. One need only view the DoI of Israel and the response from the Arab States to know that Israel is not the one desiring violence. Micronesia must point out once again the massive concessions Israel has made for peace with some of its neighbours. Israel's desire for peace has been made clear by these concessions - when it does use violence it is through necessity of self-defence.

The RSA wishes the rep for Micronesia would remove his rose tinted glasses. Any state which crosses in to the soveriegn territory of another is an aggressor. The RSA is not so blind as to believe because Israel says it isn't aggresive it can't possibly be.

Perhaps because the inept and corrupt PA has wasted and stolen BILLIONS of dollars over the years and diverted millions more to terrorism? So no international donor can be confident of aid to the palestinians ever reaching the people and not being spent on weaponry to be used against Israel.

Perhaps the representative would substantiate these claims?

Reply 14

Longshoredrift80

10

Craghyrax

The Secretary General is quite astonished at Micronesia adopting such a defined stance towards the Israeli/Palestinian conflict ^o)

With all due respect, were the SG to examine the voting record of Micronesia at the UN, she would find that Micronesia consistently votes with Israel and the US, often as one of only a few countries against a large majority.

Example: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3912487.stm

Reply 15

Longshoredrift80

10

Ethereal

It is entriely unwarranted. Need we remind the rep that Israel is responsible for all sorts of attrocious acts?

Need we remind the rep that Israel has had many atrocious acts perpetrated against it consistently for its entire existence? Israel has been dragged in to a conflict it does not desire since the day it was created.

Ethereal

I'm sorry? Did the rep for Micronesia just claim that because most countries are listed as human rights abusers (which I refute anyway) but the RSA has only named Israel here there is some agenda? Israel was named because they are the ones reveiving an increased funding for their military.

And yet the delegate does not comment on the large military deals the US has just struck with Saudi Arabia, a country with a considerably worse HR record. That makes the Micronesian delegate feel there is an agenda.

Ethereal

Any state which crosses in to the soveriegn territory of another is an aggressor. The RSA is not so blind as to believe because Israel says it isn't aggresive it can't possibly be.

1. This is absurd. There are many cases of States crossing in to the sovereign territory of another in self-defence, not least the Allies invading Germany towards the end of WW2. To claim all incursions in to another State, even when prompted by attacks, are "aggressive" is bizarre and insupportable. International law allows such responses to attack.
2. The RSA delegate does seem to have issues with Israel.

Ethereal

IPerhaps the representative would substantiate these claims?

Seriously? Is the RSA delegation so poorly informed about the Middle East that it does not even know what is open and common knowledge amongst all? Micronesia suggests the RSA delegate acquaint himself with the situation in the Middle East before commenting further. Or is the RSA simply attempting to waste the time of the Assembly by asking for evidence of things he knows to be true?

Reply 16

Ten Green Bottles

2

Ethereal

Need we remind the rep that Israel is responsible for all sorts of attrocious acts?

Germany would like to remind South Africa that, although Israel's actions have been unfavourable, Israel has been the brunt of attrocious acts itself.

Reply 17

Ethereal

19

JonathanH

Need we remind the rep that Israel has had many atrocious acts perpetrated against it consistently for its entire existence? Israel has been dragged in to a conflict it does not desire since the day it was created.

Has the RSA denied Israel has been subjected to violence? Did the RSA not openly mention it did not condone the violence perpetrated against Israeli citizens? Does the Micronesian rep ignore that Israel has consisitently sent tanks, helicopter gunships and soldiers in to refugee camps?

And yet the delegate does not comment on the large military deals the US has just struck with Saudi Arabia, a country with a considerably worse HR record. That makes the Micronesian delegate feel there is an agenda.

That is not under discussion in this point. If you want our comments on it, start another thread. I will address your comments about an agenda below.

1. This is absurd. There are many cases of States crossing in to the sovereign territory of another in self-defence, not least the Allies invading Germany towards the end of WW2. To claim all incursions in to another State, even when prompted by attacks, are "aggressive" is bizarre and insupportable. International law allows such responses to attack.

When the bounderies are crossed in response to a state action it does indeed allow it. However, you have referred to Israel fighting terrorists, which by their very nature cannot be an organ of the state, therefore it is an act of aggression to cross the borders.

2. The RSA delegate does seem to have issues with Israel.

Point of order. The representative for Micronesia has no basis for making this statement, nor is it relevent. The representantive for the RSA is advancing, to the best of his ability, the opinion of the Republic of South Africa. It is bad form for you to throw thinly veiled accusations of Anti-Semitism or Anti-Israeli sentiments at everyone who opposes Israel's actions in this manner. You are out of order and the RSA expects you to retract such statements forthwith.

Seriously? Is the RSA delegation so poorly informed about the Middle East that it does not even know what is open and common knowledge amongst all? Micronesia suggests the RSA delegate acquaint himself with the situation in the Middle East before commenting further. Or is the RSA simply attempting to waste the time of the Assembly by asking for evidence of things he knows to be true?

Clearly, this is not open and common knowledge as we have asked you for proof. If you can prove the PA is diverting money to terrorist organizations show it, otherwise do not make such statements.

Reply 18

Craghyrax

17

JonathanH

With all due respect, were the SG to examine the voting record of Micronesia at the UN, she would find that Micronesia consistently votes with Israel and the US, often as one of only a few countries against a large majority.

Example: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3912487.stm

That's fair enough.

Reply 19

Longshoredrift80

10

Ethereal

Does the Micronesian rep ignore that Israel has consisitently sent tanks, helicopter gunships and soldiers in to refugee camps?

Refugee camps that contain many terrorists, bomb-factories, weapons-stores, etc. It is palestinian terrorists who make such incursions a vital necessity for Israeli defence.

Ethereal

That is not under discussion in this point. If you want our comments on it, start another thread.

What a surprise, it would be absurdly out of character for the UN to focus on any other country as much as Israel, would it not?

Ethereal

However, you have referred to Israel fighting terrorists, which by their very nature cannot be an organ of the state, therefore it is an act of aggression to cross the borders.

Israel fights terrorists in the "palestinian" territories. The "palestinian" territories are NOT a State, they do not have national sovereignty or properly defined borders. Thus Israel does not cross such borders during such operations. Case closed.

Ethereal

Point of order. The representative for Micronesia has no basis for making this statement, nor is it relevent. The representantive for the RSA is advancing, to the best of his ability, the opinion of the Republic of South Africa. It is bad form for you to throw thinly veiled accusations of Anti-Semitism or Anti-Israeli sentiments at everyone who opposes Israel's actions in this manner. You are out of order and the RSA expects you to retract such statements forthwith.

The Micronesian representative stands behind his comments and draws attention to the record of the delegate of the RSA on the subject of Israel.

Ethereal

If you can prove the PA is diverting money to terrorist organizations show it, otherwise do not make such statements.

It has been proven many times in the past. Cases such as that of the Karine A in 2002 exemplified the fact that PA funds were diverted to arming terrorist groups. Further, as the PA was for years under Fatah control, money was used consistently to fund Fatah including the terrorist-wing, the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade. There is evidence a plenty for this if the delegate would do some research.

Syria is not amused

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